How could blind eyes see the grandeur, deaf ears hearken the sound?
This is far from just another week at the Temple of the Worm. I’m very excited to share my thoughts on the Seidr’s cosmic masterpiece Ginnungagap, as well as the esoteric and bizarre The Cavern Stanzas by the ever evolving Kinit Her. Jim gives his take on Wonder, the excellent new piece of solitary, woodland metal from Lustre, while Marty takes on another industrious week; covering Exhumed, Lacerated and Carbonized, Sargeist, and Vom Fetisch der Unbeirrtheit.
Let us know what you think again, this week! Looking for a conversation topic: How does the Obituary kickstarter strike you? Gimmicky? Great idea? Couldn’t care less?
Marty Rytkonen
Fields of the Nephilim – The Nephilim (eternally amazing album. Never gets old)
Phlebotomized- In Search of Tranquility
Priomordial – The Gathering Wilderness
Falls of Rauros/Panopticon – Split LP master
Emperor – In THe Nightside Eclipse
Bad Brains – 1982 Roir Sessions
Afflicted – Prodigal Sun
Funebrarum – Beneath the Columns of Abandoned Gods
Black Sabbath – Heaven and Hell
Void Meditation Cult – Sulfurous Prayers of Blight and Darkness
Jake Moran
Kinit Her – Gratitudes
Kinit Her – The Poet & The Blue Flower
Lonsai Maïkov – Décembre au Mont des Oliviers
Rain Drinkers – Yesodic Helices
Hädanfärd – Smutsiga sinnen
Hädanfärd – Vederstyggelsens uppväckelse part.II
Lustre – Wonder
Richard Moult – Yclpt
Obsequiae – Obsequiae
Burial Hex – Eschatology I
Jim Clifton
Type O Negative – Dead Again
Trouble – Psalm 9
Trouble – Run to the Light
Trouble – Manic Frustration
Slayer – Show No Mercy
Slayer – Reign In Blood
Slayer – South of Heaven
Thou Art Lord – The Regal Pulse of Lucifer
Lustre – all
Obituary – The End Complete
Worm Gear 
Jesus Jimmy boy – looks like you are having ‘Trouble’ with that playlist of yours. Me too! I am sticking with just Pslam9 and then slowly moving on. Last time I opened myself to Chasm and just tried to digest 5 or 6 albums at one time, and i just got overwhelmed and it all got too much.
As far as what else I am listening to this week, just Freeks Great-Grandmother rolling in her grave. Muahahahaha! Evil winks…..
The Obituary welfare thing is silly, of course, but I’m a little more worried about them actually thinking they need $10-15k to record and manufacture an album. Whatever.
Metal lately:
Monstrosity – Imperial Doom
Blasphemy – Fallen Angel of Doom
Necromass – Mysteria Mystica Zofiriana + new one
Nifelheim – – Devil’s Force
Archgoat – Whore Of Bethlehem
Godflesh – Pure
Cardinal Sin – Spiteful Intents
Gorguts – Colored Sands
new Peste Noire
Emperor – ITNE
Toxodeth – Mysteries About Life and Death
Nausea – Crime Against Humanity
Impetigo – Ultimo Mondo Cannibale
Ha, yeah, all the discussion last week compelled me to spin those Chicago oldsters again. And I know what you mean about too much at once; I’ll abandon albums far too quickly when I’ve spread my listening self too thin … especially hard not to do as a reviewer I guess, but hey, I’ll refrain from complaining too much about my free/pre-release music 😉
I don’t really care that much, but the Obituary thing is dumb. Can you help us pay for our album and then go out and spend money to buy it too? WTF? Is the album really going to be any better than anything paid for with a label budget? I have a hard time imagining so. However, Slowly We Rot and Cause Of Death rule.
Still been listening to a lot of stuff from the last couple weeks. The new Black Sabbath grows on me a little more with every listen. Infera Bruo is still getting some regular spins.
John Arch – Twist of Fate
Trouble – The Skull (LP)
Edge of Sanity – Crimson
Judas Priest – Sin After Sin (Had to spend more time with this after it came up in discussion. Enjoying it.)
My Dying Bride – The Light At The End Of The World
Unholy – Rapture
Frank Zappa – Sheik Yerbouti (LP)
Oozing Wound – Vape and Pillage
Darkthrone – Soulside Journey
Jim, I like how you are balancing out Trouble’s message of “light” with equal parts Slayer. Helps keep things in perspective…haha.
Marty, Afflicted’s Prodigal Sun is killer. That album always stood out as being pretty unique in the Swedish death metal scene. More technical than most of the other Swedish DM bands. Didn’t they do another album? If so, I have never heard it.
Don’t know the details of the Obituary deal and don’t care for them enough to delve into the matter. Overall I’ve no problem with Kickstarter projects; if you don’t like the proposal, don’t give ’em your money. I’ve no idea what a reasonable budget for a ‘major’ release is.
The Seidr review caught my eye and is now trying to catch my ear. May use some emusic credit on ‘For Winter Fire’, but I’ll scour youtube some more first.
Playlist
Nachtmystium- Silencing Machine. Never gave this one much time last year. Their albums always take awhile to click with me, and this one is growing on me just fine, just like the rest of their catalog. Still hate the shitty CD packaging 😦
AC/DC- live AND live from the atlantic studios. ‘Cause ya gotta revisit the classic stuff from time to time.
New Acquisitions
Wolves in the Throne Room- Two Hunters. Someone hereabouts recommended this awhile back; $5 in the used bin brings it on home 🙂
The Devil’s Blood- Tabula Rasa. Missed this upon release. Liked all their other stuff, so hopefully this farewell release is up to snuff.
Marty> Wow Phlebotomized’s In Search… Talk about obscure. Takes me back… Immense Intense Suspense was a huge favorite back then.
Obituary? Who? I always wonder if this crowdsourcing thing means that big record companies won’t touch them anymore. In which case I’d say: find a small independent label or quit. Leeching off loyalty of fans…
UA> Fuck, when is anybody going to re-release that Imperial Doom album?? I want that album without spending a week’s pay on ebay! The same with Fallen Angel of Doom come to think of it… Fucking dowloaded mp3’s just won’t do!
Very interested in the Seidr review, For Winter Fire is awesome.
Playlist:
Candlemass – Nightfall
Candlemass – Ancient Dreams (recently purchased a used cd copy of Epicus just for the bonus live disc, Birmingham 1988 with Messiah, haven’t found time to play it yet but must be good)
Slayer – Hell Awaits (my favorite Slayer album seems to be changing all the time, right now it’s this evil bitch)
Incantation – Blasphemy
Lääz Rockit – City’s Gonna Burn
Iron Maiden – Number of the Beast
Manilla Road – Metal (a bit disappointing this one I think)
Primus – Sailing the Seas of Cheese (blast from the past, I was surprised how much I still like this plus how HEAVY some tracks are)
Morne – Shadows (very very much impressed by this one!)
Judas Priest – bits and pieces of everything from Sin After Sin to Defenders of the Faith (minus Entry Point and Unleashed in the East) plus Painkller (iPod playlist on shuffle/repeat hehehe… So good when you’re on the way too work with Breaking the Law blasting in your ears).
Patrick> Uhm yeah… Feel like I’m missing the inside joke here? Anyway, send her my regards.
To anyone looking for a copy of Seidr’s For WInter Fire, I of course have copies in the distro: http://eihwazrecordings.com/distro
The new album (2 CD) will be going to the pressing plant really soon. Such an amazing album and I’m completely honored to be a part of it…..
Shawn…. RIGHT ON for spinning A Twist of Fate. Such a magical release by one of metal’s best (one of my favorites) and sadly underrated vocalists. I can’t tell you how many times I have spun that EP. I was so thankful he emerged from retirement to do that release, and even more ecstatic that him and Jim reunited for a full-length. I hope it continues.
Regarding Afflicted, great unique band. It’s the only thing I own by them, having never heard anything before or after this should there be anything.
Regarding Obituary…. they achieved their kickstarter goal in like 24 hours. Wow. That could make me a believer in the whole program in-spite of all the internet bitching about bands and labels using it. I’m not sure where I stand with this format, but the reality is, market has changed and releasing music often feels like an exercise in futility as everyone feels entitled to music for free. Downloading…. we all do it, but some are more responsible than others and are fine with digital copies. I and I think many of you, are not.
I baffles me that so many people apparently really need another Obituary album. With so much brilliant new bands deserving to be heard, people want the fucking Tardy bros doing a very bad copy of their younger selves, over and over again??? That’s it, now I’m totally sure, even most metalheads are mindless sheep nowadays… Baaaah.
Of course I have no clue what the hassles of releasing music in physical form are but it seems to me Obituary should get by on its own perfectly fine (and if they don’t, well, retire already!). From what I’ve read, it’s always the semi-big household name bands that use this crowdsourcing thing anyway… Would make a lot more sense if for instance some future Eihwaz release would be on kickstarter…
And yes people, get For Winter Fire! So no release date for Ginnungagap yet?
I’m not interested in hearing new Obituary but…
“[the] market has changed and releasing music often feels like an exercise in futility as everyone feels entitled to music for free. Downloading…. we all do it, but some are more responsible than others and are fine with digital copies. I and I think many of you, are not.”
I think this is a really good insight into a potential value of kickstarting albums. If it’s used as a pre-order system, the label or band can put it in the hands of the fans to see it released. Want a new album by X band? Pay to make it happen. You get the album (and some gimmicky bonuses if you want…), and you ensure that the label and/or band don’t get fucked over because no one actually bought it on release. That seems like it could be a healthy thing to me. It could be abused of course, but then, what can’t?
Freek” people want the fucking Tardy bros doing a very bad copy of their younger selves, over and over again??? That’s it, now I’m totally sure, even most metalheads are mindless sheep nowadays… Baaaah.” Yes, join the darkside Freek. Feel the truth and power, feel the hate!
Obitchuary can suck my evil fucking dick AND all the mOOrons that gave them money.
As long as people are poor (and most metalheads are, be it youth or working status) there will be pirating. I think it is good. In the world we all live in, there will always be buyers and collectors. Most of the serious metalheads want to buy, but might not be able to. Let’em pirate the fucking thing. I’ll tell you though, it is 90 times harder to download something for free now than it was last year. A lot of the sites like Rapidshare and the big daddies removed all that shit. And if someone is pirating your shit, and you don’t like it, you just do a search, find them, and report it and they take it down fast. Problem fucking solved. There are so many bands now, no one can possibly afford to buy even what they remotely like. Even me, the picky asshole, can’t afford to buy everything that passes my way that tickles my fancy shamncy nuts.
Already there Patrick. I OWN the darkside, I’m a fucking bad Sith Lord motherfucker!
Pirating is fine with me as I think it only affects the major labels. Major labels are about milking the cow and fucking music buyers in the ass. You already have that record? Oh but we just reissued it with extra tracks and a bonus DVD. I hate that shit! So…
The dedicated collector who mostly buys from independent labels will always prefer to have a physical copy, therefore I guess pirating will not affect the little ones as much as the big ones.
Of course I could be wrong but I do know this for a fact: there’s two decent music stores in my hometown; one is big, has a huge and very varied collection and sells mostly major label stuff. It attracts the casual buyer who buys whatever is hot or what he heard on the radio or in the car commercial or what his girlfriend likes or whatever; the majority of the buyers.
The other is a small store, with a small collection of mainly indepent stuff. It attracts the nerds, the collectors, the people who put effort in tracking down the latest release of this tiny band on that label nobody has ever heard of; the minority.
Now the first store is having a real tough time lately because of the “I want my music for free” mentality, I’ve heard the owner complain and they might go out of business. The second store; business as usual. They never were rich and never will be, but they’re doing fine.
However I don’t see a how people being poor affects piracy. Rich kids dowload as much as poor, it’s a matter of mentality, not bank account. I’m not rich. If I want to buy loads of records (and I do) I’ll just have to cut spending on other things (new clothes and shoes? Fancy restaurants? Who needs ‘m?). If I want to hear so much new music that the only option I have to get it all is downloading, then I think I want too much and I will not absorb and truly enjoy the music I have. Seriously; how can you truly listen to an album if you buy (or download) one or two or even more every week? And I’m mainly talking to myself here hehehe… Yes I want to hear everything that tickles my fancy too, but in the process the time I really spend with an album gets smaller and smaller.
I really should go back to only buying vinyl hehehe…
Fuck me. Just found out Varg Vikernes wants to kickstart a lawsuit against the french government. Really! This shit is getting silly.
I agree the wealth of a listener probably has very little to do with whether they download or not. I am older and prefer physical media. It is a generational difference. Every 20-25 year old I hire at my job downloads music (both legal and illegal but much more the latter) and can’t believe I still buy CD’s let alone the occasional vinyl. They can afford I- phones and the ridiculous monthly fees for that, but can’t afford a 11.99 CD? And I’m not going to defend labels, but ultimately you’re taking from the artist, and I want to support the artist. So I buy CD’s and never download something for free that isn’t given away by the band or label. Plus I’m much more likely to invest time in something that I spent money on than something that was taken.
Good for Obituary if that many people care. I don’t, but obviously a lot still do. Someone in their camp has good business sense…which leads me to this little anecdote:
I recently gave $2.00 for a “pay what you want” download of a local band’s 4 song digital demo on Band Camp. Just the other day the $2.00 was returned to me because the artist never properly set up their pay pal account! Now, no one is starving over my $2.00, but seriously this is a perfect example of why bands probably still need labels or accountants.
So will Varg offer a portion of any reward won if you donate for his legal defense? And seriously most civil case trial lawyers (at least in the States) don’t charge anything if they don’t win. They just take a whole bunch if they do win. Funny stuff!
Oh, I agree with you both. What I meant, actually, was for Metalheads that want to collect, but can’t due to a lack of money, so they pirate. I am not speaking for everyone. I was more thinking about guys I know, and myself when I was younger and didn’t have the funds to buy much. And there are a lot more serious alternatives to buying music, like eating and rent.
Eating and rent? Who needs ‘m?
For something completely different…
Now playing; Glenn Gould – JS Bach: Sonatas for Piano & Violin, Sonatas for Piano & Cello.
I started listening to clasical music a couple years ago and found out there was another whole soundworld to discover, one that’s overwhelmingly big and wide… There seems to really be a lot of classical inluences in metal but I don’t hear/read metalheads talking about classical music often. Do you guys listen to classical? Any favorites?
YES! shostakovich my fave! Wagner, Verdi, Chopin are faves too. like various opera as well
Jean Sibelius and Hugo Wolf get the most frequent plays over here, along with a lot of early music.
I guess the people who paid for a new Obituary album WILL get a new Obituary album. I hope it’s worth it for them. 🙂 I don’t understand it, but whatever…
Regarding Blasphemy’s FAOD…if it really is sold out everywhere I can’t see NWN not doing another pressing. It’s like money in the bank at this point. I don’t know for sure, of course.
And if there really are enough people that want Monstrosity’s “Imperial Doom” I guess it’ll see a re-release soon enough…
Imperial Doom for me when it came out… I liked it, but was never that crazy about it. I recently dug the tape out and drove around for a week with it in my Jeep… sounded a lot better/more intense and vital than I remembered it. On vinyl would be fancy…
Alright, the metalheads know their classical, cool! Over here it’s mostly Bach, the piano works of Ravel, Debussy and Grieg and some more atonal and harsh stuff like Penderecki and Bartok. Penderecki can be so incredibly heavy, like a nightmare set to music (hear Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, preferably on headphones, very loud, in the dark). Bach’s music I find very soothing, something about his use of counterpoint I guess… All those melodies against melodies somehow stop my brain activity.
Patrick, which operas? Never got into those, can’t stand the way they sing, sounds so totally over the top and forced to me.
UA> I hope you’re right. I believe Imperial Doom never has been reissued before though…
Re: John Arch – A Twist of Fate and Sympathetic Resonance are both excellent albums. I missed out on A Twist of Fate when it was initially released. I liked John Arch and his FW albums, but I never necessarily considered myself a disciple of Arch. I was more impressed with the Fates Warning albums as a collective band. When I heard about Arch’s return with his solo album, I admit I wasn’t overly excited. Most returns are usually just an attempt to return to past glory and fall short, so I ended up skipping on it. I remember you saying good things about it on the old WG forum, which I should have paid more attention to. However, my interest was piqued when I heard he was making an album with Jim Matheos. Sympathetic resonance just blew me away. Arch and Matheos (and Bobby Jarzombek) both sound so inspired on that album and the music sounds very relevant today IMO. I was especially surprised with how great Arch still sounds after all these years and even being away from music for quite a while. Sympathetic Resonance is one of my top 2 or 3 metal albums of any genre in the last few years. I quickly went back and picked up Twist and was very impressed with this as well. Both albums are frequently in my playlist rotation. I would love for there to be another Arch/Matheos album or anything my John Arch. I am now a pretty big fan of his. And that is my essay on John Arch (I get excited talking about stuff I like).
Freek – if you want the deep evil and dark Opera, go for Shostakovich’s Babbi Yar, Verdi’s Requiem, and Mugorsky has some good stuff, but the name of the one i really like alludes me.
If the metalheads are talking classical, i feel Mussorgsky should be in every conversation. Pictures, Songs & Dances of Death, Boris Gudunov (opera). This guy’s stuff is so heavy and somber and rich. My favorite composer since I was a kid. Gorecki and Stravinsky are are my other favorite composers. And old chorale Bach is so rich, I can also listen to that. Cage, Penderecki, and Harrison have really interesting stuff, but it doesn’t move me like– 1. Mussorgsky 2. Stravinsky 3. Gorecki
If the metalheads are talking opera, the first two acts of Turandot are incredible and what got me into opera, though the forced coloratura duet in act three sort of blows the ending, despite other good arias in that act. (I saw this one live with Pavarotti.) Tosca is probably the most consistently good of the Puccinis, and Trovatore, Traviata, (Massenet’s) Manon, and Tannhauser are really good too. And although far less pleasant, Berg’s Wozzeck is an interesting musical ordeal—-seen it more than once.
Ah yes, Gorecki. His string quartets by the Kronos Quartet are great, very heavy and doomy.
Thanks for the recommendations. Downloading some Shostakovich and Mussorgsky and Turandot (can’t find Babbi Yar) now (yes, highly illegal hahaha), I’ll check it out the next time a somber sunday comes along…
The Trouble CDs arrived yesterday! First impression of Psalm 9; very, very impressive. This is HEAVY! Bastards Will Pay! Those riffs, that guitartone. And Wagner sounds like he’s very troubled indeed. Desperate and confused, I don’t think anyone has sang about the lord with so much anguish. If he had substance issues I wouldn’t be surpised.
Bach, Penderecki, Lutoslawski, Shostakovich, Bartok’s string quartets, Beethoven’s late quartets, Ligeti, Berg, Webern, Schoenberg, Part, there are others…
Marty- Cool to see some love for Fields of the Nephilim, haven’t played ’em in years but always found them interesting.
Re: pirating- some points to make:
1- I’ve talked to owners of small labels and it hurts them A LOT. They work on very thin margins. 100-200 d/ls is nothing to a major lbl, but it hammers a small label. Many such releases are pressed in runs of 500 or 1,000 copies and can take several years to sell out; if you have a couple of hundred people decide to d/l instead of ordering the disc, it can easily make the difference between being in the black or the red. People are always clamoring for small labels to do more releases, but if all their money is tied up in unsold stock b/c ‘fans’ are nabbing free d/ls instead of supporting the label with purchases, then the label can’t afford to do more releases. The label owner may be tr00 kv1t to the core, but they can’t pay a pressing plant with Facebook likes.
2- I don’t like the argument (paraphrased) “pirating is OK b/c it’s too hard to buy everything that gets released these days”. First, just b/c there is more product than you can afford doesn’t make it OK to swipe the stuff you can’t afford to buy. If we were discussing physical items it wouldn’t even be an issue. Second, the argument implies people are sort of entitled (for lack of a better word) to get every album they want. Instead of instant gratification, maybe you have to save up and buy it later. Maybe you have to do without some of the things you want.
When people start acquiring so much music so quickly, I have to wonder how much of it they ever really listen to more than once. Are people getting it just to say they have it? I’m not trying to start a fight with whoever used this argument earlier, I just wanted to point out that it’s a rather flawed justification for d/ling material; wanting lots of stuff doesn’t justify acquiring it by any means possible.
3- I’m always amused at the rationalizations people conjure up to justify pirating. At the end of the day, it is a violation of copyright law. Yes, everyone does it. Yes, big labels are assholes 99% of the time. Yes, there’s more music released than anyone but Elvis and Santa Claus can afford to buy. None of that changes the fact that it’s illegal. If it were a legal activity condoned by law, it would be called ‘sharing’, not ‘pirating’. If you do it, that’s your decision, but don’t use some weak excuse to try and legitimize it.
My own approach on d/ls:
–If it’s a new release I know I want, I pay for it.
–If it’s a new release I’m not sure I want, I find it on something like Youtube and preview it. If I like it, I pay for a copy. If I don’t like it, then I don’t buy it.
–I’ve d/led old, out of print material that I like instead of buying a copy. Since it’s out of print, the only way I cold buy it would be to find a used copy on the secondhand market. Thus, I’m not depriving anyone of sales or royalties by d/ling that item.
That’s just what works for me personally.
Nightsblood> Yeah you’re right, I guess the major vs indie label thing is not as simple as I sketched out earlier. I’d still say the independent/underground music fan, and therefore the potential small label customer, is more likely to reach for the physical product.
I very much agree with you on the instant gratification thing. Back when I was 18 for me it was so different; there were less interesting releases every month (or at least it seemed like that), I had to really search for the cool stuff instead of getting it served to me on a daily basis by a webzine, there was definitely much less money to spend so I was much more pickey and critical about my purchases… And I really lived with a new album. I had waited full of anticipation for its release (or waited patiently while I saved money to buy it, listening to it almost daily in the recordstore until the guy there got annoyed and asked me if I was planning on buying the damn thing soon) and when it was mine I would play it to death and be completely happy and not at all thinking about other recent releases or “oh I should get this band’s other albums too”… Today there seem to be too much releases, too many possibilities to hear them and enough money to buy a lot. Sometimes it feels more like collecting than anything else. Keeping up, not missing out. Plus I really love loads of different kinds of music (Darkthrone, The Meters and Erik Satie in one afternoon, yes please!). But all in all I don’t have the same intense relationship with an album anymore and I guess that’s partly because I’ve grown too much accustomed to that instant gratification thing. Anyone recognize that?
For me it’s not a justification for downloading though, not at all. I download if I want to check something out. I hate youtube quality, plus I don’t wanna be stuck to my computer. I do not feel guilty or wrong about it because if I like what I hear I buy it and delete the downloads. Music in mp3 form just doesn’t feel like the real thing, listening to an album without holding the LP/CD, inspecting the cover art and the lyrics and the credits and all… Not satisfying!!! I need that physical product! I just don’t understand friends of mine who throw away their CDs or hide them away in the basement saying “hey I have everything in iTunes now”…
Another reason for downloading for me is that a lot of my most cherished music is on vinyl, I lack the knowledge and gear to rip LPs and I really enjoy listening to music outdoors, on my MP3 player.
Breaking copyright law? Yeah whatever, doesn’t mean shit to me. What matters to me is that this stuff I love so much costs money to make, costs money to release, costs money to tour behind etc. My musical heroes need to eat. That’s the bottom line. That also means that if I want to download some major label stuff, let’s say I would really like to hear the new Beyoncé or some other popstar with a fucking carpark in his garage I would not feel a bit guilty getting it off the piratebay.
Oh yeah and you’re right about the Fields of the Nephilim too. Preacher Man!
Extremely well-spoken, Nightsblood. Downloading is a moot point for me since I don’t own a functioning mp3 player anyway. It’s far more gratifying to have a small collection of albums that I physically own, and everything I own is something I revere.
I think you are taking a bit of the moral high road on pirating.
Nights – point 1 is sound, but 2, is not. I think you are blowing what I said out of proportion. I certainly do not think it is wrong to pirate things that you may want to listen to in full but aren’t sure you want to buy. if you end up listening and liking it immensely, then buy it. but if not, delete it. And 3, yeah, I would agree with Freek.
I know filesharing sites are really clamping down on this issue because they are afraid of the FBI, but I am not sure about Torrents. I haven’t done Torrents in years, and therefore, forgot to consider that. I would imagine that is as out of control as it was when I was doing it regularly for movies and the like.
And finally, I wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t finalize this whole pirating thing by saying this is a very complicated subject, one in which I could argue both ways. I tend to write in a very loose unthoughtful way in this blog, because it is Metal and i just wanna have fun. So please, try not to read too much into what I am saying here. This is one of the few places I can unleash the immature side of myself.
Nightsblood made some very well articulated points on downloading and my own personal views are very similar. I don’t do any pirating myself. I actually like limiting the amount of new music I hear. I feel I am more likely to spend time with an album and appreciate it more if it is something I have worked and paid for. I do preview stuff on youtube and if it is something I like I will buy it and if I don’t like it I usually just don’t listen again after a listen or two. I do not use youtube as a replacement to my cd player/turntable for my listening experience. Plus I do not have any ownership or control of the stuff that is available to listen to on youtube.
There are people who pirate and then purchase the stuff they like, but there are also a lot of people who pirate with no intention of purchasing the album or purchase a small portion of the albums they download. I agree with Nightsblood about his point on people doing mass downloading for the instant gratification part of it. It seems that a lot people who primarily listen to albums without paying for them are more about “me” and “my listening experience” rather showing any dedication to and support for the underground scene. I want to make clear that I do not think that anyone I have encountered here seems to be this way at all. I don’t agree with downloading major label stuff, but I am not as concerned about it as I am with the small and midsized labels and bands. I think all labels regardless of size are being hurt by downloading.
There are a lot of advantages being able to instantly listen to so many different songs/bands on the web, but sometimes I miss the pre-internet music scene when you actually had to get off your ass and do some work to find out about underground bands. Or maybe I am just getting old.
I’m late to this party, but I can say without a doubt as a label owner, downloading is good for spreading the word, but it quickly kills the independent label. Bindrune has earned a very sturdy following over the years which I’m eternally grateful for, BUT this respect doesn’t always translate into sales. In fact, some weeks I get more bands contacting me with hopes to be on the label, then actual sales emails coming in. It’s hard out there and mind blowing. It hurts the major labels too of course, but they release huge numbers and have all the pieces in line to withstand a drop in revenue.
The small label is all hand to mouth. Everyone around us gets paid (PR, Mastering, plants, art), but there often isn’t enough to keep the wolves away.
Not here to bitch, but the thought that self gratification and entitlement to whatever music you want because it’s “free” for the taking is unfortunately a common way of thinking in these modern, impoverished times. “I’m broke, but I still need my jams man”.
Sorry, but sometimes we can’t have everything we want…. and that’s ok!
So yes Alan…. I agree with a great deal of your points….
I think there are no big disagreements here on this subject as I would have expected; we are all the music nerd (sorry guys) minority here. We all want little labels to survive and most of us here still buy vinyl so the non-physical product will never do. It seems in the end we’re all on the same side of the fence but our reasons may just differ a little, right?
Marty> that last paragraph is spot on. Hate that antisocial attitude.
Oh man, isn’t Maiden’s Piece of Mind (which is now playing over breakfast, it’s my day off) fucking brilliant? Revelations, Still Life and To Tame a Land are such beautiful and moody epics and pretty underrated in the Maiden canon I guess.
Yeah, you know, after considering the ‘Torrent’ dilemma, I realized that pirating is a much much bigger problem than I realized. Shortsighted I suppose. Yes, a lot of my arguments were weak and wrong. Thank you for correcting me.
Patrick, are you going soft now? Get a grip man! (very evil wink)
Right? Damn, i feel like a pussy now. Tail down and wagging every so gently. hehe.
Freek, Maiden is my favorite band and Piece of Mind is one of my favorite albums of theirs. Their early albums are about as close to metal perfection as you can get in my book. Where Eagles Dare is such a great opening track. I was glad that they recently released the ’88 Maiden England set to be able hear Still Life live on a proper release.
Damn, I wasn’t even aware of Maiden England ’88… Piece of Mind was my introduction to Maiden so it holds a special place for me. In my early metal loving days (I was like 15 and deep into death metal) I always said I didn’t care for Maiden so a friend gave me a tape of Piece of Mind. Man was I wrong! Up to 7th Son is pretty close to metal perfection indeed, afterwards…. not so much.